Belief vs. Proof
I’ve recently learned not to confuse the two when thinking about God. In so far as the way we define “proof”, there is none for His existence. Perhaps more importantly is that there will never be such proof in this life.
No one today can tell you for certain whether God exists. Most of us believe he exists, but none of us have proof. Equally so, no one has proof to the contrary.
Philosophically speaking, to have proof would render the choice to Believe useless because then we would have no choice but to Believe. (It’s like staring at the sun – you can’t deny it exists and so your ‘belief’ in it is nothing more than an acknowledgement of what you actually witness on a daily basis.) If we had proof that He didn’t exist, then we would be fools to Believe.
I don’t mind saying that the day someone proves to me that God does not exist is the day I’ll stop Believing. (Dawkins tried but he offered neither new insights nor new arguments.)
Science
I used to think that there was maybe proof in The Quran.(1) Recently, I am realizing, at a very rapid pace, that there really is none. There are interesting allusions to greater knowledge (considering the Quran made it’s appearance 1400 years ago) discovered only this century, but there is no clear evidence or proof as defined here:
sci•en•tif•ic: [sahy-uh n-tif-ik]
.1. of or pertaining to science or the sciences
.2. occupied or concerned with science
.3. regulated by or conforming to the principles of exact science
.4. systematic or accurate in the manner of an exact science
…which has absolutely nothing to do with Belief or Faith, a common mistake made by many on both sides of the question.
I hear Muslims repeat over and over that within Islam is ‘proof’ that God exists. With all due respect – and this is something I have recently been forced to say to myself: This is complete nonsense. I say that I look around me and see order and so believe in God. I look around me and think about the concept of ‘creation’ and I believe in God. I am incapable of ‘creating’ and so rationally link that back to my belief that something greater than me exists and from which I came. Further to this point is my personal belief that I can not possibly comprehend what I can never execute: creation. We can clone and we can split atoms, but we can not create an atom from scratch, nor can we create anything without possessing the composite of it as it already exists elsewhere.
But…within none of these thoughts is there proof of His existence. What there is, is one individual’s rational and very personal process to answer the Question most (if not all) of us struggle with at some point in our lives.
This rational process is time and again reinforced in the Quran when readers are challenged to “reflect” on their surroundings and “see” the signs as the pointers to God’s existence. When read clearly, it’s actually a dare more than anything. The point here is that the reader is nowhere asked to devise scientific evidence to prove His existence. Not surprising, this too is the same process that would make one a non-Believer.
It’s precisely the choice and the freedom inherent within making that choice that renders Belief much more poignant and worthy to the Believer.
Another situation one may confuse is experience with knowledge. Speaking for myself, I can say that I have experienced profoundly moving circumstance that have furthered my Belief in Him. To others, such experiences could be perceived as nothing more than a Believer’s over active imagination simply because they want it so much. Either way, no one has proof.
To make certain of this, the above distinction also speaks to three key points that can be found in most traditions and which I’ll briefly touch on from the Islamic perspective: (1) egalitarianism, (2) free will, and (3) humility.
First: egalitarianism. None of us knows for certain and so we are all starting from the same point; no one holding an advantage (proof) over the other. I don’t know anymore than you do, and vice versa. If one of us held ‘proof’, that would indicate an advantage in the make up of humans, rendering the concept of egalitarianism here null and void.
Second: free will. If I am forced or am programmed to do something…if I have no choice in the matter, then the act itself is – arguably – meaningless.
Muslims believe that this life is quite simply a gateway to the next world. It is in this world that one’s character is formed and tested. If you were to consider the finish line of a marathon, then the months – and sometimes years – of training are working to condition your body and mind in an effort to reach your goal. For Muslims, this life is where we condition the spirit and resolve of who we are. Our ‘grades’ in the next life depend on how we do in this life.(2)
Third: humility. Were Believers to actually possess proof that God existed, I believe that the main component of ‘Faith’ would no longer be a part of our make-up: Humility. Humility that comes from acknowledging that we simply can not truly know, but even within that uncertainty (a place that can sometimes be terrifying) we still choose to believe. If we’re wrong, then so be it – nothing lost and nothing gained, because a true Believer’s behaviour should be rooted in conviction rather than coercion.
If right, then we got lucky…and we’ll see y’all in the afterlife.
Also. I’m hungry.
******************************************
(1) Over the last while, there has been a surge in “scientific evidence” within the Quran. Some of these items may speak to some while not to others, and even though they don’t offer ‘proof’, they are nonetheless deserving of attention and further reflection and investigation.
(2) And what of divine intervention? I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that I pray for it on a regular basis, and as certain as I am of death, I too am certain that God has stepped in when I needed Him most.
No one today can tell you for certain whether God exists. Most of us believe he exists, but none of us have proof. Equally so, no one has proof to the contrary.
Philosophically speaking, to have proof would render the choice to Believe useless because then we would have no choice but to Believe. (It’s like staring at the sun – you can’t deny it exists and so your ‘belief’ in it is nothing more than an acknowledgement of what you actually witness on a daily basis.) If we had proof that He didn’t exist, then we would be fools to Believe.
I don’t mind saying that the day someone proves to me that God does not exist is the day I’ll stop Believing. (Dawkins tried but he offered neither new insights nor new arguments.)
Science
I used to think that there was maybe proof in The Quran.(1) Recently, I am realizing, at a very rapid pace, that there really is none. There are interesting allusions to greater knowledge (considering the Quran made it’s appearance 1400 years ago) discovered only this century, but there is no clear evidence or proof as defined here:
sci•en•tif•ic: [sahy-uh n-tif-ik]
.1. of or pertaining to science or the sciences
.2. occupied or concerned with science
.3. regulated by or conforming to the principles of exact science
.4. systematic or accurate in the manner of an exact science
…which has absolutely nothing to do with Belief or Faith, a common mistake made by many on both sides of the question.
I hear Muslims repeat over and over that within Islam is ‘proof’ that God exists. With all due respect – and this is something I have recently been forced to say to myself: This is complete nonsense. I say that I look around me and see order and so believe in God. I look around me and think about the concept of ‘creation’ and I believe in God. I am incapable of ‘creating’ and so rationally link that back to my belief that something greater than me exists and from which I came. Further to this point is my personal belief that I can not possibly comprehend what I can never execute: creation. We can clone and we can split atoms, but we can not create an atom from scratch, nor can we create anything without possessing the composite of it as it already exists elsewhere.
But…within none of these thoughts is there proof of His existence. What there is, is one individual’s rational and very personal process to answer the Question most (if not all) of us struggle with at some point in our lives.
This rational process is time and again reinforced in the Quran when readers are challenged to “reflect” on their surroundings and “see” the signs as the pointers to God’s existence. When read clearly, it’s actually a dare more than anything. The point here is that the reader is nowhere asked to devise scientific evidence to prove His existence. Not surprising, this too is the same process that would make one a non-Believer.
It’s precisely the choice and the freedom inherent within making that choice that renders Belief much more poignant and worthy to the Believer.
Another situation one may confuse is experience with knowledge. Speaking for myself, I can say that I have experienced profoundly moving circumstance that have furthered my Belief in Him. To others, such experiences could be perceived as nothing more than a Believer’s over active imagination simply because they want it so much. Either way, no one has proof.
To make certain of this, the above distinction also speaks to three key points that can be found in most traditions and which I’ll briefly touch on from the Islamic perspective: (1) egalitarianism, (2) free will, and (3) humility.
First: egalitarianism. None of us knows for certain and so we are all starting from the same point; no one holding an advantage (proof) over the other. I don’t know anymore than you do, and vice versa. If one of us held ‘proof’, that would indicate an advantage in the make up of humans, rendering the concept of egalitarianism here null and void.
Second: free will. If I am forced or am programmed to do something…if I have no choice in the matter, then the act itself is – arguably – meaningless.
Muslims believe that this life is quite simply a gateway to the next world. It is in this world that one’s character is formed and tested. If you were to consider the finish line of a marathon, then the months – and sometimes years – of training are working to condition your body and mind in an effort to reach your goal. For Muslims, this life is where we condition the spirit and resolve of who we are. Our ‘grades’ in the next life depend on how we do in this life.(2)
Third: humility. Were Believers to actually possess proof that God existed, I believe that the main component of ‘Faith’ would no longer be a part of our make-up: Humility. Humility that comes from acknowledging that we simply can not truly know, but even within that uncertainty (a place that can sometimes be terrifying) we still choose to believe. If we’re wrong, then so be it – nothing lost and nothing gained, because a true Believer’s behaviour should be rooted in conviction rather than coercion.
If right, then we got lucky…and we’ll see y’all in the afterlife.
Also. I’m hungry.
******************************************
(1) Over the last while, there has been a surge in “scientific evidence” within the Quran. Some of these items may speak to some while not to others, and even though they don’t offer ‘proof’, they are nonetheless deserving of attention and further reflection and investigation.
(2) And what of divine intervention? I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that I pray for it on a regular basis, and as certain as I am of death, I too am certain that God has stepped in when I needed Him most.
Labels: Faith



12 Comments:
You have an interesting way of approaching religion. It is a breath of fresh air to see someone acnkolwedge the above differences because it gets old really quickly when either side tries to PROVE they have the right answer. I guess to most people it feels like they're fighting for their lives :)
Marvelous post. Going through some major re-examination in my faith, it makes it often difficult for me to find the words when I have to guide my children in understanding and living theirs. Thanks for putting the words in my mouth :)
Chantal
This is a very balanced and reasonable approach. Atheism can itself be a foem of faith- faith in the idea that science can or will explain everything worth explaining; faith in the conviction that there is nothing more than what can be explained 'rationally' through science. But in fact there are many important things that can't be proved. Who can prove scientifically that something is good or just and that something else is not? And yet most of us rely on such judgements in some way.
ooh, you've given me much to think on. I might be back to pester you and ask about some portion of your examination.
Never as a challenge though, just a curiosity for me. :)
RED FONT! COOL!!!!
That's why agnostics are way cooler than atheists. They'll at least admit they don't know and so won't. I like your approach best.
You're doing a lot of crazy heavy thinking lately!
Maria
This is an excellent post. Like Paul already said, it is very well balanced - I am greatly appreciating all of your insights.
I am going to fast tomorrow, Maha! I am going to try it for a day, so keep me in your prayers :)
Colleen
MICHELLE -- all questions are most welcome. It's usually them that allow me to figure out my own mind...so please, go ahead and ask.
Don't be upset if I come back with a simple: I don't know!
...all I can promise is that I'll try to answer :)
yay!
I left this for too long before addressing it, but the first thing that popped into my head was the following (which took place between bed time and REM cycle):
in regards to the "creation" aspect of your belief, i was wondering if this was in regards to the natural environment (which I gathered from you saying you are "incapable of creating" though Bob Ross would argue otherwise...teehee!).
because while you see the creation as a kind of proof of something greater, there is proof of how things are created. and while we ourselves cannot create volcanoes (unless angry of course and then our heads turn red and our ears smoke like cartoons) we know how beautiful and inspiring things like mountain ranges and hawaii...and gerry butler...come to be.
i dunno, i guess i'm asking more along the lines of how is it proof that something intangible made all these tangible things? perhaps.
and as an aside, i think you'd get a kick out of a physics course. :)
YaY! times two!
I'm happy you did this - I was waiting for you to come back - I would've responded earlier today but I can't access my blog from work :o)
(A) It's actually with regards to everything. Nature and all else (including humans). Specifically, it's in reference to the fact that we can't 'make' / 'create' / 'birth' anything from nothing.
We clone - but we need (is it maybe) DNA from something else in order to clone it. We don't actually make it from thin air; rather, we need something else that already exists in order to clone that thing.
Take, the simlpest thing and the smallest - an atom, yeah? We can split it and we can view it and learn about it and know it as much as science permits, but we can't make it from scratch. (You may be able to answer this: can we duplicate it?)
And life form as we know it - giving birth. Not even that is from scratch because it requires existing sperm / existing ovary...
So all we can do is pull items together and make from them something...but the items that we pull together don't come out of thin air; they are already in existence.
Is that clear - I'm trying to make it understandable, because I think it's an important point....and I really don't know if the above makes sense...
Naturally, then, the simple response would be: Just because something is, it doesn't mean that something else (here: God) created it. It could simply be. Furthermore, if everything needs something to become, then what/who created God?
Re the former: Sure...we're each free to believe what we choose.
Re the later: I don't know, but I'll say one very personal thing here: (1) I don't think I / human will ever be able to understand what I can not undertake (here: Creation). I can understand engineering and biological function and the process of cloning, but it is - as I sit here and think about it - impossible for me to imagine what can only be described as 'conjuring' (even though that denotes magic...); and, (2) To assume that God was created, necessitates that he must have once not existed. It follows from this that He is subject to time constraints as we/humans are - and I don't think that's possible, so the question - to me, at least - then becomes moot.
(B) By the way - who is Bob Ross??? :o)
(C) Sigh - Gerry. Yes. Such a beauty still and wears pants so well! ;o)
As for your "i dunno, i guess i'm asking more along the lines of how is it proof that something intangible made all these tangible things? perhaps."
It's not at all proof; it's belief and faith. :o)
"...and as an aside, i think you'd get a kick out of a physics course. :)"
...and you, my sweet beautiful Michelle, would love a philosophy course!
xoxoxoxoxo
Maha
P.S. I love discussions such as these so please feel free to engage in them in any way you'd like!
oh but i sat through a quarter of philosophy! it made my head hurt and i never got the answers right (which makes me wonder about the curriculum since i'd imagine there isn't really a "right" answer yeah?
i think i need to print this out and re-read it, so i'll try to do that soon, but i think i'm starting to see what you are talking about in regards to...well, yeah. :)
Bob Ross!! OMG! He's the (now deceased) guy who painted "happy little clouds" on PBS. you should google him! you'll get a kick out of his hair alone!
Hey, awesome post. I personally am an atheist as i believe science DOES prove that evolution happened, which makes it hard to believe that a God exists. But i really do admire people with faith. LIfe is so much easier that way.
Uhm........believing in evolution doesn't mean that one can't believe in God. Why wouldn't you believe in a God that creates in a rational manner?
You're addressing life from a christian perspective, the idea of creationism. We can still believe in the THEORY of evolution (nothing has been proven, friend) and believe in God.
I dont' know what I believe about evolution except that it makes me uneasy to think I came from an ape. But then again, life is so much easier that way ;)
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